is there was a straight arrow -- you said, this is not possible for him. you know lots of people, you just don't talk about them. there are lots of affairs going on of the but with petraeus, it was so uncommon, you would never think this would have happened with petraeus, of all people. and not only did it happen, but the women were fighting over him. >> gretchen: apparently. more detail also probably come out. >> i'm sure. and by the way, there might be other women involved also. >> gretchen: what i think the american people should be interested in is what his job was, which was being the director of the c.i.a. and what did he know about libya? do you think that he should be forced -- to me, that seems to be interesting timing, that he resigns and then why does that curtail him, just because he resigned, from testifying next week? >> i have some very, very skeptical and wise friends that say he resigned really for that. he didn't want to testify. i don't believe that because i think this is too much trauma for himself and his family to go through, frankly, to do that.